tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1722905538095487703.post806647000059057931..comments2023-12-19T23:00:50.340-05:00Comments on The Geek Gazette: Is D&D really all that most gamer know?Geek Gazettehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11041253917215490424noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1722905538095487703.post-53513377499658654312009-09-01T01:27:22.520-04:002009-09-01T01:27:22.520-04:00Part of the problem is that you're saying mono...Part of the problem is that you're saying mono-system enthusiasts don't love games as much as you do.<br /><br />Another part of the problem is that you're an RPG blogger and, as Scott says, the RPG blogosphere is largely an echo-chamber. Most of the RPG publishers note that, contrary to a contingent on the blogosphere wishing otherwise, 4e is quite successful; numerous respectable and groundbreaking designers think it's quite good (Robin Laws is a big enthusiast).<br /><br />This isn't meant to be a knock in any way, but any idiot can start a blog - and the currency by which a blog is deemed successful is by how good it is at analysis. I've seen very few blogs that get histrionic about the edition wars possess anything close to mainstream views about gaming.<br /><br />I think the big tell that your opinions on gaming were horribly off base should have been the fact that you believe Pathfinder has a chance of dethroning D&D. You note that it's unrealistic, but you don't go anywhere close to far enough - it's a practically delusional belief, akin to thinking that the sun will rise in the West tomorrow morning. <br /><br />Interviews with the PFRPG staff are enough to confirm this. They indicate that PFRPG is going with a smaller print run because they can't afford to do more and - moreover - can't afford to dream of having the demand or resources that WOTC has. <br /><br />This isn't a knock on PFRPG or PF enthusiasts - it's just reality. PF will be phenomenally successful within it's sizable niche. But I think that it's niche will largely consist of new grognards who don't want to switch to 4e - and fail to bring new blood into the hobby in impressive numbers. That's the holy grail, according to the designers in interviews.<br /><br />And that's perfectly fine! Not every company should reach for the holy grail, you know.<br /><br />Look, I'm a gaming enthusiast - my favorite game is Unknown Armies. I love The Shadow Of Yesterday and hate Dogs In The Vineyard for reasons unrelated to gaming.<br /><br />But nowhere in my fandom did I ever believe any of these games would dethrone WOTC. Of the above, I think UA had the best chance of doing better and breaking out - but breaking out would mean a larger-though-still-modest print run. Societal events and trends have suggested that UA is a game that aged really, really well.<br /><br />PF, in some ways, has it worse than many of the above games. In the most important way - overall sales - it doesn't. But it's going to run into the problem outlined at The Forge in an essay called "Fantasy Heartbreakers" - by setting up the PFRPG in opposition to D&D while simultaneously not moving the 3.5 system forward, PF is ensuring that largely old stuff will be competing against the newer stuff.<br /><br />Small changes aren't innovations - and, for better or worse, WoTC is innovating with their design. It's a design some people hate, of course, and that's OK. But it's trying to use some indie game ideas as ways to innovate DnD.<br /><br />But yeah, don't be hard on yourself. It's cool to be playing a game no longer in print, really - Unknown Armies is a great game regardless of whether it's selling well.<br /><br />-neallessthanpleasedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10073732280191007278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1722905538095487703.post-11128914362886397912009-08-31T18:43:14.914-04:002009-08-31T18:43:14.914-04:00I call it the "D&D Ghetto..." The v...I call it the "D&D Ghetto..." The vast majority of gamers don't know there is anything other than D&D, and of those that do, many of those just want to play the comfortable system and not learn anything new. (One of the advantages of the "d20 glut" and things like d20 Modern and Future was that I was able to convince some folks that refused to lean new games to try out things like Spycraft).<br /><br />Back in the '90's, I finally got fed up with D&D and went into a mass orgy of other systems. Now I own a bunch of bookcases full. But the number that I've been able to get a group to play is pretty low.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1722905538095487703.post-72737863180670363152009-08-31T16:39:44.826-04:002009-08-31T16:39:44.826-04:00I must admit that I am glad that the circle of gam...I must admit that I am glad that the circle of gamers that I have met over the years have been more into Chaosium games than D&D. I count myself lucky I started with RuneQuest.Darran Simshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07155529515099586373noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1722905538095487703.post-3660595520902387222009-08-31T16:06:43.068-04:002009-08-31T16:06:43.068-04:00I just found it odd that so few of us are "en...I just found it odd that so few of us are "enthusiast". I had never really considered the fact that we are not only in the minority, but as Thasmodious pointed out, generally the DMs and the ones who own the largest percentage of books in a group as well. I also took for granted that people who truly enjoyed RPGs, generally loved gaming as much as I do.<br />I thought the time another game asked "Who?" when I was talking about Cthulhu was a fluke. I mean everyone knows Cthulhu... right? <br />Wrong and after many years of gaming I can't believe that so many of us still live in such a little box when it comes to gaming. I guess my extreme exposure to things such as RPG Blogs, message boards, podcasts, etc, as well as my desire to seek out such sources of information has kind of blinded me to the reality of the situation.Geek Gazettehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11041253917215490424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1722905538095487703.post-859184949769475472009-08-31T14:08:02.903-04:002009-08-31T14:08:02.903-04:00According to recent info that came out of a WotC l...According to recent info that came out of a WotC legal filing, D&D enjoys 6,000,000 current players worldwide (of all editions, though the plurality is no doubt playing the most recent) and an 80% or 90% level of brand awareness.<br /><br />The online (I'd use "enthusiast" to describe those with an interest in RPGs that is not limited to the table) tabletop community is intensely insular (in some places more than others). Most of these bloggers are effectively writing for each other. And yes, they represent a tiny fraction of the total playerbase.Scotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17817454535103324280noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1722905538095487703.post-40704632229627541072009-08-31T13:24:13.691-04:002009-08-31T13:24:13.691-04:00We are in the vast minority. I'd say there ar...We are in the vast minority. I'd say there are a lot of groups out there in which only the DM, who owns all the books, is the one who has any awareness of the RPG market as a whole. And even then, I'd say there are plenty of groups where even the DM isn't. My own group consists of five people, all of whom have been playing since the late 70s/early 80s (a couple of us have been gaming together since we started gaming, 30 years, wow). Of the group, I own the books, generally DM, and am the only one who reads RPG blogs and messageboards, checks industry news and the like. The rest of them, all computer guys who live on the internet, do not. They catch the odd bit of news here and there as it filters through things they do follow on the internet, but most of what filters is news about D&D.<br /><br />It's not just that D&D is the biggest and most people's entry into RPG-land, it's also something that has become a cultural icon. Most people, people who have never and would never even play an RPG have heard of D&D. I bet this reply has never been uttered by a human being before now - <br /><br />"I play roleplaying games"<br />"You mean like Savage Worlds?"<br />(or Pathfinder, Champions, Rolemaster, MERP, Shadowrun, etc.)<br /><br />The answer to that is always - "You mean like Dungeons and Dragons?"Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12883260871417486956noreply@blogger.com