Kickin' @$$ and takin' their stuff: Introducing a new generation to 2e AD&D

It is memorial day weekend and I can think of no better way to spend it than going to the drive-in (Thor was awesome!!), grilling out and playing a kick ass game of D&D.

Saturday I ran my daughter and my niece (both of which are teenagers), and my former brother-in-law through a six hour 2nd edition AD&D game. It was one of the best games I have had the opportunity to participate in for quite some time and all of the players did a great job.

I am especially proud because it was my daughter's first time with 2e (4e Essentials is all she really knows) and my nieces first time playing an RPG. I also think I did some of the best DMing I've done in years. It has been a long time since a six hour game went by and everyone was still eager to play. Even though I could have gone another 3-4 hours I had to stop the game because it was getting a little late. So I am declaring this session a huge success.

After not playing 2e for nearly a decade I can't believe how easily I feel back into the old rules. Sure there was the occasional 3e/Pathfinder or 4e rule that slipped in by accident, but for the most part we had to make just a  few clarifications on things during breaks. The girls had no problem with THAC0, my brother in law and I did a fairly good job of remembering most of the rules and fell right into how we gamed years ago.

My daughter broke from her usual routine of playing a fighter to play a two-weapon ranger and my niece played the fighter. My brother-in-law played I psionicist Minotaur (house-rules) to add a little bit of extra muscle to the party of new(er) players.

I ran them through an adventure that mixed a little bit of the Abyssal Plague story that is currently running through the core D&D novels (they aren't great, but they are fun) with a little bit of your normal meat grinder dungeon crawl. I even threw in a dungeon level that was nothing but puzzles and riddles to mix it up.

The girls seemed to have a good time and even reminded me of myself and the gang I played with when I was around their age and just learning the game. For them it was more about getting lost in the imaginary world and having a good time than it was about rules and minutia. I can't speak for my brother-in-law but Saturday's game felt more "old school" than any game I've played in a long time and it had nothing to do with the edition or system. I actually can't wait to play again and that, to me at least, is what gaming is all about.

We plan to finish this adventure in a few weeks and then we are going to decide if we will stick with 2e or move on to 3e/Pathfiner. Honestly I'm perfectly ok with either system as they are my two favorites. I've talked my daughter into giving The Mutant Epoch, Call of Cthulhu and maybe even a supers game a try. So I'll end up running a solo game for her with those systems/genre. Who knows, if she does well I may even try running a Starblazer Adv. or Hollow Earth Expedition game for her.

However, I can't decide between DC Adv./M&M, Silver Age Sentinels, V&V,  or Icons for running a supers game. Personally I think Silver Age Sentinels (d20 version is ok, but I think the tri-stat version is better) is a bit under rated, and I'm really wanting to run it, but I'm leaning heavily towards Icons because of simplicity or DC Adv. due to familiarity.

Gone but not Forgotten

Back when TSR came out with Dragon Dice a few friends and I played it for a while, along with nearly every CCG that came out and 2e AD&D. Then life got complicated, games got put on the back burner and due to some unfortunate circumstance I "lost" most of my games and comics. (FYI, just because the judge says someone has to give you your stuff back doesn't mean that the law will do anything about it if they don't. Especially if that stuff happens to be comics and games.)

Recently I fond out that Dragon Dice is still alive and enjoying a small revival thanks to some devoted fans. Apparently a company called SFR bought the rights to the Dragon Dice and have been putting out starter sets and expansion backs. I bought a starter set and now enjoy the occasional game.

Once I found out that a game I thought was long gone was actually still alive and kickin', it got me to thinking about others. Games like Spellfire, Decipher's Star Wars CCG and Wyvern (Wikipedia entry) were ones that I enjoyed a great deal back in the day, but that, for one reason or another, are no longer officially with us. I know that Spellfire has been the butt of a lot of jokes, but my friends and I had a lot of fun with it and while it was a bit sad compared to Magic: the Gathering, I still remember it fondly. 

While I do not know of anybody that is still supporting Wyvern, it appears that Spellfire was turned over to the fan community and the fan forums appear to have been active as late as 2006. Fans created a program called Crossfire to enable online play and apparently there were a few more boosters released (have not confirmed this yet), but other than a few active fan pages it seems like there has been no noticeable activity over the past few years.

Of the other games I played back then not all are lost to memory, some are still thriving or at least surviving in one form or another. Everyone is familiar with Magic: the Gathering, Legend of the 5 Rings, the World of Darkness games (Vampire, Werewolf, etc), but I can't help wondering if somewhere out there others fondly remember the games of the 90's as fondly as I do.

Along with Spellfire, Wyvern, and Star Wars I would like to know if anyone else has games from the 90's that they remember fondly that are no longer around. I want to know if games like the Vampire/Jyhad CCG (I just found out that this was actually active till 2010), Rage CCG, Overpower or anything else (CCG or not) that I may have forgotten about from that time are still active anywhere out there.

If you are a publisher of one of the smaller or forgotten 90's games or if you happen to have any information about games from that time feel free to leave me a link in the comments.

I think I'm turning old school

One of my old players and I recently decided to try getting a regular gaming group going again. It may or may not work as we have done this several times over the past few years. It may last for two games or two months, you can never tell. Life has a funny way of interfering with my games.

Anyway this particular player was in the 2e group I joined over a decade ago so he is an experienced player and has been present in nearly every group I've been a part of over the past decade. As I've mentioned in other posts I've been waxing nostalgic about 2e for the past year or so and since the opportunity has presented itself I asked him if he'd be willing to return to 2e. Happily he was very enthusiastic about the idea and still has all of his old books.

Even though I'm in the middle of reading my new Mutant Epoch RPG book, which I'm planning to run for my daughter when school lets out in a couple of weeks (and maybe the new group, BTW I plan to have a review up for The Mutant Epoch soon.), but I've also been re-reading the 2e core books.

After getting through the core rule books and the creative campaigning book,  I've realized a few things
.

First of all 2e, using just the core books, is incredibly simple. Thac0 is the most complex part. I don't hate it as much as I thought I did, but I still like ascending AC and BAB waaaay more. Back when we made the switch to 3e it seemed, at the time, that 3e corrected and simplified so much about 2e. Experiencing the game now with a decade's worth of playing 3e & 4e, I honestly think that 2e is the more "simple" system. Sure there are issues, as there is with any system, but I made 3 test PCs last night, just for fun, and got each one done in less time that it takes me to make comparable characters using 3e/Pathfinder or 4e. Naturally I'm talking about using pencil and paper only. Throwing out a quick DDi Essentials character isn't the same.


Secondly I realized that 2e has some amazing supplemental material. Maybe even some of the best I've ever seen. Creative Campaigning, the Book of Villains, all of the Complete Books (Wizard, Necromancer, Fighter, Elves, etc), tons of great campaign settings and that's just the tip of the iceberg. I know there were some less than stellar books that came out for 2e, but what my group thinks is crap may be exactly what another group is looking for. Luckily just like 3.x, Pathfinder, and even 4e, you don't have to buy or use everything that is released. If you don't like it, ignore it.

I don't care if you're talking about 1e, 3e/3.5/Pathfinder, or 4e, there is something that was put out for those systems (or the system itself) that other gamers hated. I also think that 4e, and Pathfinder are well on their way to releasing just as much material (gamebooks, novels, fortune cards, battlemats/maps, minis, etc) for use with those editions as there ever was for 2e. As a matter of fact I bet if you combine the material from 3.x and Pathfinder there is at least as much of that out there (probably more if you include 3rd party material) than 2e material.  Don't get me wrong I am a devoted Pathfinderite, I thoroughly enjoyed 3e/3.5 and I like Essentials pretty well, but I also have to admit that I don't like everything that has been released. If you release enough supplemental product, you are bound to get some crap.

Also revisiting the system that was such a big part of my life from 15 till I was in my mid-20's has made me realize how much I miss it. The only system I've played as long as 2e was 3e/3.5 (now Pathfinder) and I can honestly say that despite any complaints I may have had with it, we had a whole lot of fun. There were some really great adventures had using 2e and I can't wait to try and recapture some of that fun. It may not happen and it may just be me getting old and nostalgic, but I'm going to give it one heck of a try.

Lastly I've realized that more than almost any other RPG product I want a 2e Rules Compendium or Rules Cyclopedia. A single 400 - 500 page book with all the updated, essential (no pun intended) information needed to play the game. Just like the original RC. I'd pre-order it today.

I personally think that it is crazy for WotC to continually ignore so many potential customers/sales. They are not going to win over all of the gamers who turned their backs on 4e. It actually seems as if they are trying to alienate and maybe even push away those of us that were willing to give 4e and/or Essentials a try.

As someone who trolls the blogs and messageboards regularly, I have seen a lot of people who were 4e supporters now saying they are fed up with WotC and/or the direction the game is going. There are also a great many gamers that decided to stay where they were and simply refused to cross the edition line into 4e territory. Some of us returned to older pre-3e editions or went to completely different systems. I don't care if you are on the pro or anti 4e side of the fence or even if you are in the "can't we all get along" camp like I am, you have to admit that 4e fractured the D&D community. I fear that 5e (if we ever see it) will be met with skepticism, at best, if not outright hostility because of 4e. Unless, of course, WotC does something amazing to pull everyone in.

While many gamers are very firm in their intent to not support 4e, that doesn't mean that everyone is unwilling to support WotC if they do something good. This is why I think that WotC would be wise to release Rules Cyclopedia versions of older editions.

$50 per books, smaller print runs based mostly on pre-orders and then sell them almost exclusively at conventions, gaming shops and online. Release them on a quarterly schedule (OD&D RC in Q1, AD&D in Q2, etc) and when they are gone that's it. I don't know about everyone else, but I'd love to have a 2e RC. Sure there will be some who say "I have the originals" or "I have retro-cloneX" or that will have no interest in them because they like the current edition/other system, but there are a lot of us that would be happy to have updated "official" material for our favorite editions. It's just my opinion, but I think it would be a good idea.

Of course this could all be for naught if the world ends today. So if that happens have a good Rapture.

Conflicts between style of play vs. system

First I would like to say thanks for all the positive words and well wishes after my heart attack last month. The sentiment was greatly appreciated. My recovery is going quite well, I’m finally back to work and getting stronger every day.

Secondly, this post is not an "anti-" anything post. It is not intended to start a conflict and is in no way an edition wars post. It is simply an personal evaluation of the way my gaming groups tend to play and the issues we have had with various systems/D&D editions.

That being said, heart attack or not, I’m still a gamer and the past two months have given me a lot of time to not only read and enjoy the many great posts on the RPGBN, but to also catch up on reading or re-reading my RPG books.

            The first books I dove into were my newly (re)acquired 2e AD&D books. Reading those books not only brought back many fond memories of games past, but I also realized something about the style of play that seems to be consistent with all the groups I've gamed with.

            My realization was that my groups and I tend to be more focused on story and less so on crunch. We seem almost unable to play games with the Rules as Written. With the exception of when I first started playing using the D&D Expert rules, I have never, to my recollection, tried to run a game as written. Even with the Expert rules I seem to remember my attempts to run it RAW lasting a very short time. Houserules and tweaks came about almost immediately. 

            When I and my group(s) moved on to 2e I don’t remember anyone ever using any of the optional kits or proficiencies. Everyone pretty much stuck with the basic classes and the simplest, most basic version of each of them. Occasionally someone would run a specialist wizard, but that was about as “out there” as any one I played with ever got with their PC’s class. They spent more time worrying about back-story and personality. We also tended to ignore most of the percentile rolls and instead just used a d20 roll with a target number; similar to the DC of 3^rd edition.

            Once we moved on to 3e, the only difference for most of my group(s) was that we now had rules that supported the positive AC and BAB that we had started using during 2e. When it came to PCs everyone pretty much stuck with Cleric, Fighter, Thief, Ranger and Sorcerer (Wizard if they wanted to specialize) as the basic classes. My players rarely ever wanted to play a Paladin, Bard or Druid and no one ever (seriously), ever wanted to play a Barbarian. The only time a Prestige Class was ever used in our games was during two sessions where I actually got to take a break from DMing and run a PC. Even on those very rare occassions I generally ran a Sorcerer or Necromancer. To be honest after my initial read through of the 3e PHB, I never even bothered to keep up on the rules or details for anything other than the classes my players used. This remains true even with Pathfinder.

            Another thing that all of my 3e groups seemed to agree on was Feats. They barely used them and this also remains consistent with our Pathfinder and 4e games. I’ve just gotten used to it and it probably wouldn’t take much for a player to throw me off my game by using feats that I am, for the most part, unfamiliar with. Sure my groups did/do use some feats, but the ones used are pretty consistent and few.

            Everyone pretty much sticks with using toughness, silent spell, still spell, combat casting, two weapon fighting, blind fight, exotic weapons and maybe dodge.  There are probably a few more, but that’s just about it. As they go up levels they may retake some feats like toughness or maybe a greater version of one of the feats they already have, but rarely ever will they move beyond this list.

To some this may seem dumb. It may also seem like we aren’t utilizing the full potential of the system, but for my groups having to keep track of the effects and “rules” for various feats is a headache and detracts from the fun we are trying to have. They want feats that give bonuses that can be added to their numbers and forgotten about. They don’t want to keep track of a bunch of numbers.

Until the internet I always thought that gamers were extremely rare. At any given time I’ve been lucky to known 3 other people that were regular gamers. As I got older girlfriends, spouses, in-laws and children were added to the mix. My groups often contain these new or casual players of various ages, most of which do not own a single rulebook and may only show up for the occasional game (sometimes once per year). Making the game easier to play is essential (no pun intended) to keeping things going.  Generally I am one of the two people at the table who has ever read the books and knows any of the rules.

With my groups we only consider encumbrance when someone tries to do something ridiculous like carrying a full sized dragon and all the gold back to town in their cart. We use the -/+ 2 rule for just about everything else, completely ignoring rules for concealment and being flat-footed. Distances are estimated by what would make sense or make the situation more exciting/interesting and we never speak in “squares”.

Skills are another area where we ignore a majority of what is listed. No one takes a profession and very rarely will anyone take a craft. The primary skills my groups use are Perception (Spot, Search), Knowledge(the most popular skill choices), Thieving Skills(sleight of hand, stealth), Use Magic Device, Survival, Acrobatics, and Diplomacy. That is pretty much the only skills that my groups have ever had any concern with in 3e and now Pathfinder. The remaining ones have always seemed pointless or better served by using a different skill. This is something I believe 4e got very, very right.

When I moved on to re-reading my 4e books the differences in the way my groups play and the way that so many others seem to play became even more apparent to me. (I’m making assumptions based solely on what I read on blogs and forums.) My group at the time gave 4e a chance when it was first released and to be honest we didn’t care for it. None of us could put our finger on it, but something about the system just felt wrong. Yet, for some reason when Essentials came out I found that I liked it.

At first I thought my fondness for Essentials was due to the few tweaks they had made to the classes, the updated rules, the digest format (I really like that) and the fact that I had left 4e sitting for so long that it now seemed fresh to me. After all Essentials is 4e with different builds for the same classes and errata included in the rules. Now I realize there is more to it than that.

When 4e first came out there were a lot of options for character builds. No matter what class you played, you had to keep track of your different powers, whether you were bloodied, marking enemies and how many healing surges you had. More than with any other edition we had to actually keep track of where everyone was located, the proper use of their powers often depended on it. While it is still there, this just doesn't seem to be as prevalent in Essentials. It seems easier to ignore.

The limited choices you have with classes are one the major complaints I hear about Essentials and one of the main things that appealed to me and my players. The character concepts are quick and easy to do without a computer. Sure the powers are still written with the mini and map gamers in mind, but for many of the builds this even seems to be less evident that it was in original 4e.
With Essentials, character creation is fairly easy, especially with the Character Generator, as is setting up adventures. Although when doing it the “old fashioned way” I found the time saved is minimal compared to character creation and adventure building in Pathfinder. I can create a PC or adventure in just about the same time in both systems using a pencil and paper. Still I do concede that 4e has the slight advantage here.

I am a bit more familiar with Essentials than I was with original 4e when it came out but to me it still seems easier to play Essentials in the way we’re accustomed to playing. I can run a game without a map or minis easier with Essentials than with Original 4e. This may just be my perception or it could be the fact that I’ve put more time in with Essentials than I did with 4e, but it still seems true.

So while I have come around to 4e thanks to Essentials, I do still have issues the system and I don’t see me abandoning Pathfinder anytime soon.

Having a solid group to game with is something that I dream of having one day. Over the years I have been lucky to keep a group of at least 4 - 5 players for more than 6 months only a couple of times in the past decade. With my gaming groups divorces, marriages, moving, family responsibilities, new girlfriends/boyfriends, jobs, school, other responsibilities and in a few cases incarceration have made gaming regularly and on the same schedule nigh impossible. More often than not I am running games for 1 or 2 PCs.  4e Essentials just does not work well for this kind of game.

I’ve had many people argue differently, but in my 20+ years of gaming (I can’t believe it has been nearly 25 years…. Wow, I feel old) I have never run into a game that required as much thought to run a single PC adventure as I have with 4e & Essentials. (I don't include Rifts in this statement because it is time consuming to run no matter how many players you have. I'm also sure there are games that are much more difficult to run, but I haven't played them.)

Another issue that we still have is that there seems to be so much to keep track of in Essentials. Which is one of the things we did not like about Original 4e. Granted I know the rules to 3e, Pathfinder, d20 Modern, and Hollow Earth Expedition (these are the only systems my groups will generally play) much better than I do 4e/Essential, I’ve been playing them longer and have more experience with them. So maybe rules familiarity has something to do with my perceptions regarding this.

However, my very first 3e and HEX games were both single PC adventures that I ran just days after getting the books and they were no problem to run. Yet after months of running Essentials I still get a feeling of dread when I have to prep for a single player game.

I really do like Essentials. I enjoy reading the books and I want to love playing the game. The things I like about the game are huge bonuses as far as I’m concerned, but the game is so geared towards a specific style of play and party size that it makes it a little more difficult.

I don’t want this post to come off as me bashing 4e because it isn’t. If anything it is me making comparisons, thinking out loud if you will, and trying to find ways to reconcile my gaming style with the system. If nothing else this is about me realizing some things about myself and my groups and what we look for in a game. Maybe these issues are common among gamers, or maybe the people I know are just strange, either way this is how things are.

Before anyone starts screaming about how we should play OSR games, there are some issues with them as well. First none of my players likes the idea of races as classes and to be honest after so many years I’m not fond of it either. Second, none of us like descending AC or THAC0. I may be extremely fond of 2e, but THAC0 is not one of the things I remember fondly. Last but not least I’m still having a hard time convincing the few players that are still around to play an OSR game. While I own nearly every OSR game as well as many older D&D books, if we were going to actually go old school, which is not likely, it would be with 2e. The problem is that most of them are younger than I am and they equate “old-school” with “out of date”. Since game sessions are so few and far between I just gave up trying to convince them otherwise.

However, something has arisen that may allow me to run a Basic Fantasy and/or a 2e AD&D game in the near future and if that works out I’ll try to post something.

Taking some time off

For those of you who care enough to notice that I haven't posted much lately, there is a good reason.
Earlier this month I had a massive heart attack. To say it came as a pretty big surprise to me, my family and my doctor would be an understatement. Especially since I had just been checked out and given a clean bill of health.
Since I've only been home from the hospital for a week I honestly haven't felt much like posting and I actually intend to postpone the posts I have planned for a bit longer. My priorities have changed a bit over the past few weeks and to be honest, keeping up with this blog just isn't that high on my list right now.
I do appreciate the well wishes I've received from those that know me personally, but for at least the next month or so the blog will remain silent. Then I'll decide if I want to keep the blog up and going of if I want to find another way to occupy what little free time I have.

My 10 Favorite RPG Covers...now with pictures!

***Repost:
I was pressed for time and stupidly did not double check this post before I scheduled it to go online and as many of you pointed out there were no pictures. When I wrote the post the pics were there, but I either A) did not save that draft properly or B) accidentally made two posts and deleted the one with the pictures. Regardless the fact that the pics were missing was my mistake. So now I present this post as it was originally meant to be seen. Sorry about the goof up. ****

This list is completely dependent upon my mood and is likely to change, at least somewhat, from month to month, but as of this moment these are my favorite RPG book covers.

• 10. Rifts Ultimate Edition core rules

• 9. Rifts: Madhaven

• 8. Mutants & Masterminds 2e core rules

• 7. Pathfinder: Advanced Player's Guide

• 6. 4e D&D DMG

• 5. Secrets of the Surface World(HEX)

• 4. Hollow Earth Expedition (HEX)

• 3. AD&D Unearthed Arcana

• 2. Pathfinder RPG

• 1. 2e AD&D DMG

Still updating the other pages.

For those of you that care, I am still working on getting the promised links up on the other pages. Currently I am trying to get all of my RPG gaming links in order and up on the proper page. I've gotten a few put up and will definitely be more to soon.

I have tons of links to go through, organize and add, so it is taking me a bit longer than I thought it would. This may result in me consolidating a couple of the pages, but I assure you I am still working on it when I have the free-time (which is not very often) and I will get some more up soon.